Pavlo Matyusha: The very fact that we stood firm is already a victory

Pavlo Matyusha is a Ukrainian writer, translator, and author of “Paris. Spleen,” “Coclico,” “Circle with a Dot,” and many other works. Matyusha doesn’t serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine anymore, but his military experience has left a deep imprint on his life as an individual — especially as a creative professional accustomed to turning experiences into ideas and texts. Recently his book, “Lettres d’Amour et de Guerre” (Letters of Love and War), was published in France. The book features correspondence between Matyusha and his wife Victoria and has already received considerable publicity in various countries, continuing to attract new readers eager to learn more about the difficulties faced by people caught up in the whirlwind of war.

In the framework of “Words and Bullets,” a project implemented by Chytomo media and PEN Ukraine, we speak with Matyusha about his creative reflections on crisis situations, raising international awareness of the war in Ukraine, and how to write about the war while it is still ongoing.

The special project is being implemented with the support of the Institute for Human Sciences (IWM Vienna)

Chytomo: First of all, let me ask you how you made the decision to join the Armed Forces of Ukraine? You have four children, and I presume it must not have been easy.

Pavlo Matyusha: The thing is, my choice wasn’t a considered one. It was very emotional. When the war began, we were frustrated, especially since I had a military background from my education. In 2014-2015 [when the Russian-Ukrainian war began with Russia’s invasion of Crimea and Donbas], I did not volunteer because my wife was giving birth to our third child. This sentiment stayed with me until the outbreak of the full-scale invasion.

This time, not participating directly in the war was not an option for me. I mean, I couldn’t accept that option for myself. I immediately looked for ways to mobilize. I managed to get into the armed forces at the end of April 2022. To be honest, there was family drama too. My wife said she understood my choice, but it was hard for her. This led to many misunderstandings between us but eventually resulted in a book we wrote together.

I know it might sound strange, but I was probably waiting for this time to come because I realized that the full-scale invasion would begin sooner or later.

Chytomo: I know you have a lot of experience working in state institutions, including experience as a translator. I understand you were involved in training in the armed forces?

Matyusha: Yes, I served as a senior combat training officer in the 47th separate mechanized brigade, where I temporarily took on the role of department head. In other words, I was engaged in the training of soldiers of our brigade, who later took part in the 2023 counteroffensive in the south.

This resonated with my military education, although I am a military interpreter by profession. Given that everyone in the war found themselves doing a bit more and taking on different tasks, I think this was a natural development.

Pavlo Matyusha’s Facebook page

Chytomo: When you joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine, you saw many new people, many recruits who were trained under your supervision. What kind of people were they? Who did you single out? What did you notice?

Matyusha: All that was surreal at the time, but in a positive way. There were different people from totally different walks of life. There were businessmen, lawyers, and representatives of other enforcement agencies. There were former cell phone salesmen, cooks, developers, tennis coaches, and people of many other occupations.

It was a huge and motivated group of people who were ready to work. They did not know what exactly they were ready to do, but the main thing was that they knew they were ready to take up weapons and defend their country.

The truth is that this is such a beautiful and sad story of heroism and self-sacrifice. You leave everything behind and go to do something you have never done before, unlike the military, who knew exactly what it would be like because many of them took part in the Anti-Terrorist Operation [the name of the first stage of the war in Ukraine, which began in 2014 and lasted until the full-scale invasion in 2022].

It was frankly inspiring. That spirit was fantastic. At that time, I believed, like a child, that we would return to the borders of 1991 [Ukraine’s internationally recognized borders before Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea]. In 2022, it looked exactly like that, with this spirit, this uplift. It seemed so obvious.

Chytomo: Despite the fact that you were involved in military service, and had, obviously, lots to do, you still managed to write a book with Victoria. Earlier you mentioned that mobilization led to family conflicts and misunderstandings. What role does your correspondence play in this story?

Matyusha: When I joined the army, I, like many other people, was wrong about the duration of the war. I thought it would come to an end in six months or so because it would be irrational for our enemies to continue. But they are absolutely irrational, as we have already seen.

Pavlo Matyusha’s Facebook page

I thought that six months was enough time to serve my country and then return to my family. I was lying to myself. When a year passed and Victoria was living alone with our four children abroad, this became a threat to our family. She filed for divorce, with this explanation: it was better to be divorced than a widow.

At that time, I was in the south, the counteroffensive began, the battles for Robotyne continued, and our family affairs threw me off track. I made notes about military life on my phone. I had various ideas about writing something bigger, but apart from poetry and these notes, I couldn’t create anything worthy. I didn’t even have time, to be honest. Besides, I don’t really understand how you can write something bigger when you are actively involved in the war.

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Something bigger isn’t written, my wife is filing for divorce, and the counteroffensive is unfolding dramatically. At that moment, in Paris, my wife Victoria was contacted by Doan Bui, the leading reporter for the sociopolitical publication Le Nouvel Obs (L’Obs), who went to Ukraine to talk to the wives and mothers of the fallen soldiers. Given that I was serving in the military at the time, she decided to speak with me as well.

Our conversation was weird. Doan asked about the losses in the brigade, the morale, and about very specific and very unexpected things for me as an officer. You don’t talk about those things, especially during a major operation. I was reluctant to respond to her, and later, to smooth over our awkward conversation, I sent her one of the notes I had saved on my phone. Bui enjoyed reading it, and said that it was interesting and important. She said it was about human emotions, not only about war, but also about military life. Bui suddenly had an idea: what if my wife and I write letters to each other and they publish them in their magazine?

I think I wrote two letters at once that evening, and then all I wanted to say poured out of me. Victoria had to answer. The letters were published weekly in the online version of the magazine.

We quickly ran out of space allocated for our letters, but I kept writing, unable to stop. Eventually, I realized we were heading toward a book. I also understood that Victoria might not be moving at the same pace, but she was certainly progressing. Our hearts were overflowing, and this writing was a kind of therapy — honest and sincere, and I hope it had some literary elements.

Chytomo: How did you manage to find a publisher for a book with such a non-standard format?

Matyusha: Bui found the publisher, and our collaboration came together quickly. When I was discharged from the army, I went to France to see my family and meet the publisher. We had a nice and warm meeting. The book turned out to be successful in France. It has already been translated into Dutch. We presented the book on local television, in French libraries, and at literary festivals. Victoria recently presented this book in person to the new NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte. We were also invited to present our letters in the European Parliament, in connection with the third anniversary of the outbreak of the full-scale invasion.

Pavlo Matyusha’s Facebook page

Perhaps there will be an English translation as well. One U.S. publishing house was interested. It is interesting that the book hasn’t been published in Ukrainian yet. The problem is that Ukrainian culture tends to favor something like the myth of Achilles, about fallen heroes who can be mourned. I, on the contrary, am alive and discharged from the army. This could be a trigger for those still there at the frontline, even though all my thoughts are with them. I believe the military needs rotation, a well-thought-out and planned rotation, because it’s not OK for someone to stay in the trenches for years. Rotation of personnel is necessary, one way or another. These people need to reintegrate into society, to rebuild their lives, but how to do so after such a long period is also a question.

Chytomo: If we talk about Achilles and the story of the hero with the appropriate ending, is this your intuitive assumption, or have you already had some communication with Ukrainian publishers and received rejections?

Matyusha: Well, yes, I communicated with the publisher I don’t want to name. I frankly have some questions as to why a book in which the protagonist, a soldier who is discharged during the war, is taboo in the Ukrainian cultural space. Should I go back to the army and do some other actions, so that the book has the right to be published? I don’t know. I think that if it is published at least later, it will be great. Even if it is published by the publishing house I didn’t mention, it will also be great. If it is not published in Ukraine at all, I think it is quite strange.

Chytomo: Despite all this, the book has been published and one can read it in different languages. We now know that the international company Space Production has bought the rights to film it. What do you think about this?

Matyusha: It was nice to learn about this. Although, as a writer, I find it to be the most important for me to have my books published in as many languages as possible, and above all I would really like to overcome this surreal situation and publish it in Ukrainian.

The movie will make me happy. In fact, I would love to play a cameo, at least some minor tiny role. I would also like to take part in the creation of the script.

Chytomo: In any case, it is quite clear that the need to communicate what is happening in our country to the international audience is still relevant.

Matyusha: This book is full of empathy. It processes everything connected to the war: its consequences, its devastating impact on families, individuals, people on the front lines, and those living away from the front lines. The destructive influence of war is on everyone. The shift from the personal to the larger scale is about universal themes. Readers have their own lives, and they relate everything to themselves. It’s easier for them to relate to someone else’s life than to the whole era. As for the era, I believe we will still have time. We will need to reflect on and fully grasp the experience of this war.

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I have also noticed that Western readers are tired of reportage writing or recounting all the atrocities and tragedies in such an enumerative manner. They have some kind of internal block. And when there is one story that runs like a thread through everything around it, that’s what they are ready to read.

Chytomo: Now, when you have been discharged from the army, are you ready to summarize or generalize your experience? The war still continues — we all believe that it will end with Ukrainian victory — so I’m not talking about this level of generalization yet, but your service is already a certain phenomenon that had a beginning and an end, which can be looked at in general.

Matyusha: I believe that we have already won in the sense that, for the first time in many centuries, this deadly machine coming at us from the east has not destroyed us. We have stood. Unfortunately, all previous wars and encounters with this northeastern monster ended in a way that we had to retreat and wait for the next opportunity. The very fact that we stood firm is already a victory. Now, the key is not to lose this victory in our own internal conflicts, but to continue building our country in economic, cultural, and political terms.

At the same time, I am still at war, in the context of the war, just in a different capacity. Accordingly, I can write about the war from the point of view of a person who is not currently in active service. We [in Ukraine] are all in the same situation of the ongoing war. I don’t see a way to generalize it now, precisely because the war is not over yet. I’m not sure whether we can draw any preliminary conclusions here either.

On the one hand, I’m really not sure that any far-reaching conclusions are necessary to be able to write about anything at all. The form of the writing, the topic of the writing, the plot, the attention to the fate of an individual or people in general are sufficient grounds to create a wonderful work that can be perceived both in Ukraine and abroad. We don’t necessarily need a global understanding to write about this war.

On the other hand, if we want to write a meaningful text about the war, we need to wait. We need to understand the creative task, or guidelines. I do not set myself up for the task of comprehending the war and publishing a philosophical text. I just want to write the story of a person who came out of this war.

Pavlo Matyusha’s Facebook page

Do I have a plan for this text? No plan so far, but it will sprout and take shape in the future.

Chytomo: This correlates well with what you have previously said: to approach the reader through empathy, through personal experience.

Matyusha: I am convinced that for many people it will be a great surprise when we see a text that reflects on the war in general. The author will not know this when they start writing their text, even when they finish it. They will be writing about something that will hurt them, and this will lead to a profound realization. It will be something real, as opposed to attempts to construct some quasi-deep thoughts.

“Words and Bullets” is a special project by Chytomo and PEN Ukraine about Ukrainian writers and journalists who joined the ranks of the armed forces or became volunteers after the start of the full-scale Russian invasion. The name of the media project is symbolic of the weapons used by the project’s heroes and heroines before February 24, and which they were forced to take up after the outbreak of a full-scale war with Russia. 

Translation: Iryna Savyuk 

Copy editing: Sheri Liguori